tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6613185.post114583052239306948..comments2023-10-26T05:12:19.629-07:00Comments on PonderIt: Can Marketing Replace the Gospel?Bradley Rosshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06030210881782328907noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6613185.post-1145971029359146612006-04-25T06:17:00.000-07:002006-04-25T06:17:00.000-07:00Who says more people would be converted under this...Who says more people would be converted under this model? I know people that have attended church meetings for years (they usually have family members that are church members) without being baptized.<BR/><BR/>I also have to wonder if the average level of activity would remain constant once the need for the desired services (child care, music lessons, etc.) was past, since individual conversion would simply be a desirable byproduct rather than the main focus.<BR/><BR/>The idea, I guess, is that some of the casually committed would eventually become truly committed. I have seen this occur in the lives of a few people, but I have also seen it go the other way.<BR/><BR/>I think it's important for the church to focus on its core responsibility and to be very careful about involvement in non-essentials that tend to carry high overhead costs. Most of the church's resources should be applied to its core mission.<BR/><BR/>But we're not purists in this respect. A friend of mine that works for the church says that he thinks it must offend the Lord on some level that we have nice gymnasiums in every full-size ward building, while we don't have baptismal fonts in all of these buildings.Scott Hinrichshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11831447472339880148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6613185.post-1145932318969843452006-04-24T19:31:00.000-07:002006-04-24T19:31:00.000-07:00Thanks for those comments. The point you both rais...Thanks for those comments. The point you both raise about baptism is a very valid one. Would it be appropriate in our church to have a large number of "investigators" that attend but are not baptized? <BR/><BR/>I suppose that if we had a bunch of people that were attending but were not holding callings it would make a lot of the problems of a small ward even worse in the short term. (Good luck finding enough primary teachers!) But in the long term, as more people were converted...?Bradley Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06030210881782328907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6613185.post-1145914081838427022006-04-24T14:28:00.000-07:002006-04-24T14:28:00.000-07:00Mike sounds pretty bitter. His criticisms are not...Mike sounds pretty bitter. His criticisms are not without merit, but they seem rather skewed. I wonder what percentage of the 4000-strong Methodist congregation attends worship services weekly. I wonder how many fully tithe. I wonder how many actively serve in a 'calling.'<BR/><BR/>The LDS model requires much of its adherents. It takes serious conversion to be willing to donate time and means at the level required. The LDS model also works with a sort of New Testament flavor to even things out between its congregations. There is a desire for all units to have as much of the church's programs as their respective members are able to bear.<BR/><BR/>So we don't build mega congregations with fantastic services that can be easily obtained outside of the church. Instead we build intimate congregations where everyone can (and needs to) serve each other. You know, President Hinckley's point about every convert needing a calling.<BR/><BR/>Not all worldly methods are worthy recruiting tools for Christ's true church. These kinds of things grew in the original Christian church as authority and revelation waned. Probably everyone that has served a mission has seen the misuse of recruiting techniques that resulted in the baptism of someone that wasn't truly converted. So I'm not sure how winning some kind of worldly popularity contest with a religious tilt is going to prevent the retention nightmares Mike references.<BR/><BR/>If our congregations are uninviting and our fortress to protect from evil so strong that the good cannot peer inside, we've got a problem. If our congregations are not alive with the Spirit, we've got a problem. But I'm not sure that professional daycare, sports, and music programs are the proper way to address those problems.Scott Hinrichshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11831447472339880148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6613185.post-1145893026222413632006-04-24T08:37:00.000-07:002006-04-24T08:37:00.000-07:00I am a little torn on this as well. I look at D&C...I am a little torn on this as well. I look at D&C20:37 (at least I think that is the verse) that covers requirements for baptism, and they seem pretty high. On the other hand we baptise in the temple for any name we can find. Christ also said the thing about every creature.<BR/><BR/>I do believe that what we want is long term growth, and steady retention. We don't just want the youth we want the parents too.Eric Nielsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00530011180028252442noreply@blogger.com